There's a difference between fear and prudence.

Do you lock your car door in the parking lot out of fear, or prudence?

Do you support security checks at airports out of fear, or prudence?

You should definitely expect each faction to portray the opposition faction's policies as fear-driven, and their own as prudence-driven. Don't be fooled by the rhetoric. Decide for yourself what policies are prudent, and support those policies. Don't let the fearmongers and the hatemongers influence your own common sense.

Also, you could probably stand to not participate in the fear-mongering and hate-mongering and counterproductive ridicule of the people coming up with the ideas.

I think we'd all be better off if you discussed Jindal's policies on their merits, and told us whether or not you think they're prudent policies, than to make fun of his choice of words.

I think it's not living in fear so much as it is being aware. Yes, the terrorist wanted to make us afraid. What they didn't bargain on was what they did would set us into action. That's what they are doing. While it may not stop illegal immigration, it definately will do something in making us safer from terrorism.

You are right, it is not THE answer, but it is part of the answer.  I do not like the senate solution, but at least the house solution is a start.  And we best start now, or just eliminate the borders.

Dr. Guy... if they aren't going to set-up machine guns and treat the fence like the old Berlin Wall it's just a waste of time. The coyotes (or whatever they are calling them these days) will still get people (including terrorists) over the borders for a price. People brave miles and miles of desert so a pair of fences are just another small hurdle to climb (probably literally).

The best way to stop illegal immigration is to start enforcing the laws that already exist. Mandatory jail time for those that employ illegals (3 months first offence, 6 months second, etc. with factors for the number of people (illegals) involved). Spend the money that will be wasted on the fence (and continuous maintenance, power for cameras, personel to monitor said cameras) on more INS enforcement. I'd like to see more of what happened in Georgia happen elsewhere.


foreverserenity... How does a fence stop terrorism? Fences can be climbed or cut and you've still got miles and miles and miles of coastline that are easy enough to get to by speed boats, etc. Again, cameras and a double fence only keep the honest people honest, it's not much of a deterrent otherwise. And for the record, those that enter the country without proper visas/papers aren't honest people to start with, no matter how it is rationalized.

stutefish... This is more like locking the car door and leaving the windows open - it really doesn't make all that much sense (see just above). And I DO NOT support all the airport checks, they are a total waste of time. Once again, they keep the honest people honest, punish the forgetful (OMG, you've got a pocket knife! TERRORIST!!!) but really are not effective enough to stop anybody determined enough to get a weapon on board a plane. What worked well in the 70's was letting everybody know that 1 or more Air Marshals could be on any given flight. They went undercover and you would never know they whether or not they were there and that possibility was a good deterrent. The Israelis have a good method of dealing with this exact same problem (and you better believe that El Al would be a prime target) - their screeners are trained to look for certain behaviours. It's just "hello", a couple of questions and if you display any of the "tells" you're sent to the next level of screening, otherwise you're on your way. No muss, no fuss.

There is a great quote from Benjamin Franklin: Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. While it might be arguable that standing in line for airport checks is stretching the limits of the term Essential Liberty as a country we still just give in too easy and divide into reds and blues. The idea of illegal wiretaps on overseas calls is easily accepted by many because of "National Security", the same with airport checks, etc. It's quite sickening actually - as a country instead of being HEARD we're being HERD - nothing but a bunch of sheep following our politcal Judas Goats.

BTW, I've written to Mr. Jindal and expressed my displeasure and I'll stop here now.

foreverserenity... How does a fence stop terrorism? Fences can be climbed or cut and you've still got miles and miles and miles of coastline that are easy enough to get to by speed boats, etc. Again, cameras and a double fence only keep the honest people honest, it's not much of a deterrent otherwise. And for the record, those that enter the country without proper visas/papers aren't honest people to start with, no matter how it is rationalized.

It may not be able to stop everyone, but it is a deterrent. It lets everyone be aware that there is something being done. Despite what some people may think, (and you too) something is being done. Who says it's going to be a fence you can climb anyway? I'm not sure what the reference to illegals being dishonest came in, as I didn't refer to that at all. However, it's your opinion and I"m not going to argue with you about it.

I think your thinking is a bit extreme. You seem to look at things from a worst point of view. I will point out what I mean by taking your words and turning them against you ass you did to others here.

C'mon Bobby, get your story straight. Aren't you living in fear as evidenced by passing HR 6061?

Since when is cautious fear?

I think we definitely need to do something to curb illegal immigration but building a fence just isn't going to get the job done. In addition, biological and nuclear weapons can be had or made in this country with enough money, the right know-how, connections and machine tools. And it wasn't that long ago that homegrown anthrax by mail was the terror weapon of choice. The HoR needs to get a grip.

So you're an all or nothing kinda guy? Everyone bitched about not doing anything to secure our borders, here we have someone doing something and all you can do is complain that it's not enough? Hows about applauding the guy for actually doing something about it rather than complain how "very little" this fence will help prevent the crossing of illegals. Maybe you should consider that while it may be just another hurdle for these illegals, it is "another" hurdle, meaning that now they have to get across a double fence on top of everything else they go thru, not to mention it gives more time to those trying to catch them to actually find them now that they have to get thru this double fence. Of course how can you see any good in this, people like you are blinded by hatred and would rather complain about what they are getting rather than be happy that they are getting anything at all.

I guess it isn't a coincidence that elections are right around the corner. The "Representatives" who voted for this resolution can claim they are tough on illegal immigration and that they are pro-active in protecting the electorate. It's too bad that many people, those who believe that giving up rights and freedoms is the way to ensure security, will generally agree with this resolution.

You make it sound as if this tactic is only used by one side or one person. This is, obviously, a common tactic during elections on both sides of the political arena so saying this is actually quite ignorant, or childish. The one thing you and many others must realize is that there is a real threat out there, 9/11, the Tower bombings before that, the USS Cole, etc are proof of it and we need to protect ourselves from this threat. You yourself said it when complaining about how very little this idea will do, are "you" afraid as well Kettle?

"I'm normally not a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me Superman."

Unless he has the power to know who exactly to stop, not even Superman can save you from terrorist or politicians. It's a shame that people like you don't know how to save yourselves, always depending on others.

The best way to stop illegal immigration is to start enforcing the laws that already exist. Mandatory jail time for those that employ illegals (3 months first offence, 6 months second, etc. with factors for the number of people (illegals) involved). Spend the money that will be wasted on the fence (and continuous maintenance, power for cameras, personel to monitor said cameras) on more INS enforcement. I'd like to see more of what happened in Georgia happen elsewhere.

No, the best way to stop illegal immigration is to take away the reason why they come here in the first place. Their Gov'ts must change and focus on helping the needy. More jobs must be created so that they can have work and have no need to cross the border looking for work. Then we can also enforce our laws but stopping companies from hiring illegals. Smugglers? Well, reguardless if its illegals, drugs or weapons they will always find ways cause thats what they get paid for, they eventaully get caught, but get replaced just as easily. I agree better technology is a must plus more personnel on the ground, but we have to stop the problem from the begining, not catch it half way.

How does a fence stop terrorism? Fences can be climbed or cut and you've still got miles and miles and miles of coastline that are easy enough to get to by speed boats, etc. Again, cameras and a double fence only keep the honest people honest, it's not much of a deterrent otherwise. And for the record, those that enter the country without proper visas/papers aren't honest people to start with, no matter how it is rationalized.

It's another barrier between them and their goal. It may not be 100% effective, but then again nothing will. It is however, at least something compared to what we have now which is really nothing, and we should be thankful that they have not done anything with nuclear or biological weapons to us, or are they dumb enough to wait for us to secure our borders better before trying?

This is more like locking the car door and leaving the windows open - it really doesn't make all that much sense (see just above). And I DO NOT support all the airport checks, they are a total waste of time. Once again, they keep the honest people honest, punish the forgetful (OMG, you've got a pocket knife! TERRORIST!!!) but really are not effective enough to stop anybody determined enough to get a weapon on board a plane. What worked well in the 70's was letting everybody know that 1 or more Air Marshals could be on any given flight. They went undercover and you would never know they whether or not they were there and that possibility was a good deterrent. The Israelis have a good method of dealing with this exact same problem (and you better believe that El Al would be a prime target) - their screeners are trained to look for certain behaviours. It's just "hello", a couple of questions and if you display any of the "tells" you're sent to the next level of screening, otherwise you're on your way. No muss, no fuss.

I don't agree on the airport security a waste of time. Though we have to get their earlier than usual and have to go thru a long line to be checked, I see it as a good thing. People are lazy as it is and already have the bad tyendacies to make it late to the airport, this only garantees they will not be late. Not to mention that it's not as easy as before to get on a plan with illegal items, though nothing is perfect and there will always be someone, just not as many as 9/11. And the US marshall thing? What would be the point if the terrorist knew there was one all they have to do is prepare a plan to deal with the Marshall. When a criminal is determined enough, they will succeed, reguardless of how many Marshall there are. Just look at Iraq, the worlds best military can't even deal with them. Determination is the key word here. They have more will to fight for what they believe in than we do and that is a sad reality.

What this country really needs is for the American people to wake up and take control of thier Gov't, reguardless of what party is in charge. we need to become more involved in the decition making around here. We need to stop being so lazy and going back to our recliners and Directv right after we vote and let those we voted for run a muck. It's time we took a stand and remind those in political positions that this is a Gov't for the people, by the people; we are the real politicians here and we are the ones who make the decisions here. They are simply there as our unified voice to the rest of the world.

"I'm normally not a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me Superman."

That's a Simpsons quote, and was likely included as a comedic relief.

The terrorists wanted us to live in fear of them, not our own government. So far I see a lot of people claiming victory for the terrorists while missing the point that very few Americans fear terrorists at all.... and rightly so. Of course now all we have to do is make sure our "leaders" don't accuse us of living in fear simply because they don't want to bother doing anything about the border problem.

To Charles.C

I started to reply to some of your comments while ignoring your personal attacks, then I came to the following paragraph (and added bold to the part that that is germane).

Unless he has the power to know who exactly to stop, not even Superman can save you from terrorist or politicians. It's a shame that people like you don't know how to save yourselves, always depending on others.

EDIT: Deleted my comment...

Have a nice day.

To foreverserenity:

It may not be able to stop everyone, but it is a deterrent. It lets everyone be aware that there is something being done. Despite what some people may think, (and you too) something is being done. Who says it's going to be a fence you can climb anyway? I'm not sure what the reference to illegals being dishonest came in, as I didn't refer to that at all. However, it's your opinion and I"m not going to argue with you about it.

I agree about arguing over opinions. Something is being done, we agree to disagree whether it's worthwhile or not. Thanks for reading.


To Demosthenes Locke: You got it, just a bit of humor. I guess some others didn't get it, oh well. Thanks.

To ParaTed2k:

The terrorists wanted us to live in fear of them, not our own government. So far I see a lot of people claiming victory for the terrorists while missing the point that very few Americans fear terrorists at all.... and rightly so. Of course now all we have to do is make sure our "leaders" don't accuse us of living in fear simply because they don't want to bother doing anything about the border problem.

I'm not so sure that it's just "very few people" who fear terrorists in the US. People were afraid to open their mail, terrified if they saw or imagined white powder. People are more afraid to fly because of the terrorist threat and, thanks to both the government and the media, people are still afraid of large gatherings although in the past 3 years they seem to be getting over it that, especially for sporting events.

I actually agree with what Mr. Jindal wrote, that the goal of the terrorists was to make Americans live in fear. I think (believe, feel,???) the main goal of terrorism is to cause fear and uncertainty in general, not necessarily fear of the terrorists themselves.

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

To DesignGuy:

Man, I think I may have to start detailing everything I write cause people take things way to deep to the heart. Though I am sorry for your losses and am glad that you did what you did (good job), I don't understand your point of telling this story about Katrine when the article is about the border and terrorist. My point about " It's a shame that people like you don't know how to save yourselves, always depending on others." was that instead of doing something about it, you would ask Superman to save you. I know it was a joke and my answer was a response to the joke, maybe not necesarily funny, but I thought obvious, guess I thought wrong.

One thing you gotta understand, when you write an article that basically bashes someone for actually doing something, expect strong responses from people who see him as actually doing something. You may think a double fence is not enough and hey, it's your right to think that way, but you can't really expect everyone to just say you are right. I would rather have someone at least try and give me a little rather than they just site there and completely ignore it like many in our Gov't have. How afraid are we really of these people that we have to create a barrier that will cut us off completely from the rest of the world? And what would make anyone think that they won't try hardder to get in anyways. There is no way for this country to protect itself with walls, security guards, powerful weapons and super security systems if we just let anyone with a "legit" visa into this country. Most of the terrorist that came here were here as students or tourist, how do we know the difference? Not unless we give up every freedom we have, start using ID's that will allow the Gov't to know where we are at any given time, all taping of every for of communication, have a curfew at night, just basically allow the Gov't to track the moves of every single person in the US in order to stop terrorist and criminals and I don't even think that can yeild even 99% protection. Obviously we will not give up all our freedoms, so our only choice is to take our fight to them, we have to bend our own rules a bit cause it's these rules, which make this country so great and palatable to so many, that also make us weak.

I find it insane to create and have some of the most powerful weapons on this planet, but we can't use them cause it makes us look bad yet criminals, terrorist and such, if they can get their hands on them, will use them with no fear of looking bad and in the end will be seen by many as freedom fighters, innocent people fighting back and/or not as bad as they seem. One thing I have learned in life is that fear gives others power over you, standing up and facing those you fear takes that control away from them.

BTW, I'm not sure why you would consider blacklisting me at all, why create articles and allow people to express their feeling towards what you express and then be trigger happy with the blacklist button when someone doesn't agree with you? I went over my own reply just to make sure I did not write anything I shouldn't have and I see no reason for this comment of yours. So I took at few shots at you when I said "are "you" afraid as well Kettle?" and " It's a shame that people like you don't know how to save yourselves, always depending on others." but this is hardly "personal attacks" and any reason to blacklist anyone. My reply was not so much personal but more a response to your beliefs, which is what I thought you were looking for when you posted this article and allowed replies. I'm sorry if what you were only expecting was people to agree, next time maybe you should put a disclaimer or something asking only for the who agree with you to express themselves here since you don't take kindly to opposing views. I can tell you this much, nothing personal about my replies to anyone here (with the exception of Col gene) but if I ever do, trust me you will know and chances are you will blacklist me without responding to me, keep in mind this is very rare.

Have a nice day as well.